Bob: "Are you going to have the girls do chores here?"
Me: "No, I think that would be a bit much."
We talked a bit more about what happened on 9-11, and Marilyn's role. She was a much lower key First Lady than some of her predecessors. On the other hand, after eight years of the 'Bill and Hillary Show', I think the nation would be happy with a low key First Lady!
Bob: "You are far and away the richest man who has ever been President. You used to commute to work in your own helicopter, and you own a jet and a beach front estate in the Bahamas. That's not really a middle class household."
Me: (Shrugging.) "I was certainly born middle class, maybe upper middle class, just like Marilyn. I never really set out to become rich. I knew when I was young that I was going to have to support myself, that I wouldn't be getting any help from my family. So you start out thinking, I just need to make enough to go to college. Then you figure, I just need to make sure my kids can go to college, and I can afford to pay for my daughters' weddings. Then it just got bigger."
Bob: "How so?"
Me: "Well, I remember how, right after I got out of the Army, and I was worth about forty or fifty million, and I took Marilyn on a second honeymoon, a nice private resort in the Bahamas. Anyway, we both really liked it, and I just told her casually, not really thinking about it, that if she liked it, some day I could buy a place like that for her."
Marilyn: "I remember that! I asked if you were serious and you were like, I guess so, but I would really need to be worth about $100 million or so."
Me: "That's right. So, that became my next goal. After that, it was to be able to buy a plane. That was my reason to become a billionaire. It's not just about how much you have. It's not just a scorecard. It's what you can do with the money. It's just a tool. I have a few toys, that's true, but I give away to charity every year more than I could ever spend on planes and helicopters and such."
Bob: "You are in the Forbes Top 10 for American wealth. You are certainly the richest American to become President."
Me: "You know, I'm not quite sure of that. Oh, I agree that in absolute dollar figures that is undeniably true. Still, we have had some awfully rich Presidents. Washington was extremely wealthy, and what was his share of the American economy of the period, compared to my share of the economy now? What effect has inflation had? If you look at Mount Rushmore, you are looking at some pretty wealthy guys. Washington, Jefferson, and Roosevelt were all quite wealthy, and while Lincoln was born in a log cabin, he became a very successful trial lawyer and married the daughter of a wealthy man. He really wasn't hurting either. This is one of those questions we'll have to wait for some economics grad student to figure out."
Bob: "You said you weren't expecting any help from your family. Why is that? When did you realize that?"
I glanced over and saw that Holly and Molly had snuck into the back, so they were going to hear this stuff. I sighed. They would see it on television Sunday night regardless.
Me: (Sighing.) "I learned as a very young teenager that I was a considerable disappointment to my family. To them I was a failure, and they would not support a failure. If I was going to make my way in the world, it would not be with their assistance."
Bob: (With considerable surprise.) "How can you say you were a failure!? By all accounts you were a prodigy in science and mathematics. By the age of 14 you were being published in scientific journals. At 16 you were attending college. You were a millionaire by the time you were 18. That sounds like anything but a failure!"
Me: "To most normal families, that would be very true. My parents ... my mother had a vision of me emulating my father. I was to do exactly what he did, go to his college, become an engineer like him, work for a big company like him, settle down, live in the suburbs, marry a nice girl and have 2.3 children, everything just like my father. Unfortunately, I learned very early on that I had no interest in that sort of life. In my mother's eyes, and thus my father's eyes too, that made me a failure."
Bob: "They were that controlling?"
Me: "Quite. I remember when I was 14 telling them I planned to become a mathematician, and my mother was so distressed that she ordered my father to punish me, as if she thought she could have him beat some sense into me or something."
Bob: "Can you give me an example?"
Me: "One of my earliest memories, from when I was five or six, was when we made Valentine's Day cards in school. That must have been kindergarten or first grade, I suppose. Anyway, I had a word misspelled on the card. When I gave it to my mother, she gave me a lesson in spelling and then sent me to my room to write the words twenty times. I became a very good speller."
Bob: "That sounds crazy. You were punished for giving your mother a Valentine's Day card?"
Me: "No, I was punished for poor spelling. The card was not important to her. It was expected that I would give her a card, so when I gave her a card I had fulfilled that expectation. It was similar when I was in junior high and high school. If I came home with straight As, it was expected, and you don't praise when somebody does what you expect of them. Praise would have required something better than straight As; I have no idea what. Instead I was ordered to do better on the next report card, and then scolded for not having straight As when I was younger."
Bob: "Your sister has been quoted as saying that you suffered abuse from your parents. Is that true?"
Me: (Grimacing.) "I think that's a little overstated. It wasn't like they were whipping me with chains in the basement. It was simply that they had a very regimented view of how our lives were supposed to be. There was only one proper path to becoming a proper adult Buckman. My brother and I were to follow that path, and there were to be no exceptions. They took a carrot and stick approach, only without the carrot. It was sort of logical, in a bizarre way. You were praised if you behaved better than expected, and got spanked with an oak paddle if you behaved worse. However, since the expected behavior was perfection, and you could never be better than perfect, you were never praised, but only got spanked."
Bob: "And you got spanked. How big was the paddle?"
Me: (Holding my hands about a foot apart or so.) "About like this. I got hit probably every other day. When I hit 13 I told them to stop, or I'd leave home. Dad stopped, but Mom never really agreed to that. By the time I was 14, though, I was too big for her to hit."
Bob: (To Marilyn.) "Did you know about this?"
Marilyn: "Not directly, but by the time I met Carl we were halfway through our freshman year at college, or my freshman year - Carl was already a junior by then. Still, I knew that he had moved out of his home and had been supporting himself since he was 16. I did meet his family once on a visit to his home, and it was pretty horrid. I never went back. I've talked to his sister, Suzie, and she pretty much backed up everything he ever told me, or you just now."
Bob: (To me, again.) "Your brother was a paranoid schizophrenic, and your mother has been diagnosed with severe episodic depression." (I nodded at this.) "Have you ever been treated for, or suffered from mental illness?"
Me: (Sitting bolt upright in surprise.) "Now, that's a very interesting question, isn't it? I don't think anybody has really asked me that before. The answer is no. I have never sought treatment or been recommended for any treatment, nor have I ever had any signs or symptoms of mental illness. Yes, my brother and mother have had problems, but my father and sister never did, nor have any other members of my family, as far as I know. I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen any of them since I was 22."