Well, he’s an MP for Huyton, in Liverpool. And I was Liverpool. And he was one of the people. A socialistic background. The socialistic background like me.
Is it true though, asked Shelley, that you wouldn’t let him get a word in edgeways?
Well, I thought he was trying to steal the show. So I had to calm him down.
And Shelley laughed. And the audience laughed.
Bill smiled. And Bill said, No. It was a very interesting show.
Shelley sat forward. And Shelley looked over at Sir Harold –
I’ve often thought, Sir Harold, your support for Huddersfield Town is a little out of expediency? Or is that totally unfair?
Oh no, it’s born loyalties. You’re the same, Bill …
Bill nodded. And Bill said, Yes.
You are born that way, said Sir Harold. I still carry around with me — I won’t bore you with it — but I’ve still got the little card from a newspaper called Chums — which I’m sure went out of existence a long time ago — with a picture of the Huddersfield Town team in 1926. My mother would give me a bob. I went on the tram right through. A penny each way. Three pence for a pork pie. Or fish and chips. Cheap in those days. Sixpence to get in. I had to be there at ten o’clock because of the crowds …
Bill nodded. Bill smiled. And Bill said, A fearless team, Huddersfield Town then.
I could tell you every team change, said Sir Harold.
Bill nodded again. And Bill said, They won the League three successive seasons.
They did, said Sir Harold. And they were in the Cup Final, the Cup semi-final two of those seasons.
Bill nodded again. Bill smiled again. And Bill said, Yeah. And I played against them in one Cup Final. But we won’t talk about that …
But wasn’t there a famous player who you brought down to Huddersfield, asked Shelley. When you were manager there?
Well, there was a famous player who was on Huddersfield’s books, Shelley, when I went there as manager. He was fifteen year old. That was Denis Law. About eight and a half stone and very skinny.
And so what did you do with eight and a half stone’s worth of potential, asked Shelley.
Well, he was fantastic. The boy was a genius of a player. So I had to then build him up, physically.
How did you do that?
Well, we got him steak and eggs to eat …
And Shelley laughed. And the audience laughed. And Bill smiled. And Bill said, Nearly made Huddersfield Town bankrupt. The steak was kind of expensive. And then we trained him properly. Because I had the experience of a brother of mine who overstrained his heart. Because he was training too hard when he was too young.
That was your brother, said Shelley.
Yes. My brother John. And he overstrained his heart.
All four of your brothers were footballers?
Bill nodded. And Bill said, That’s correct. All five of us were professional players. Yes.
What do you think it is about hardship, asked Shelley, that seems to push people into games, really tough games?
Well, I think it’s your upbringing. I mean, I was brought up in a mining district. And it was either the pits or football. And I think football was a little better than the pits.
But you didn’t have much alternative, did you, said Shelley. Because the two pits closed?
They did.
Now did you find that unemployment had an effect on you?
Oh, it’s the cruellest thing in the world, unemployment. You feel as if you are unwanted. I mean, this is a long time ago for me. But I can see them now. And it’s coming back now, the word redundancy. And it’s a terrible word.
It means unwanted, said Sir Harold.
Bill nodded again. And Bill said, It does. Exactly. And you could get into mischief and all kinds of things. It affects people’s minds. And I think it is possibly the cruellest thing in the world, for boys to leave school and not have a job. A terrible thing. And so I worry about the youngsters these days. I mean, I love youngsters. I can always find the time to talk to them or sign an autograph. I never turned a kid away, if I could help it. Because basically I am sorry for them. I look at them. And I think, What are you going to be when you grow up? What is your destiny? I think it is a terrible thing if a grown-up doesn’t help a youngster. Because kids can be hit terribly hard if an older person goes against them …
And many times each day, the front door rings at our home in West Derby. And standing on the doorstep will be a kid. Or a group of kids. Real Liverpool types. And they say to my wife, they say to Ness, Can I speak to Bill? It’s never Mr Shankly. Oh no. But I don’t mind that. Oh no. My wife has hundreds of photographs of me holding the FA Cup. And I sign one of them personally for the kid and give it to him. Best wishes to Jim or Joe or Jackie, or whatever his name is.
But there is one group of kids. Four or five of them who come up to the house every day while they are on holiday. They always ask me what I am doing. And whether I can come out to play football. They’ve had their autographed photographs by now, of course. But I usually end up giving them their bus fares back to Gillmoss. I don’t know how they found out where I live. But so many of them do. And I don’t mind, I don’t mind at all. Because if I can help a kid along, then I will. They are broken-hearted if you snub them. And that I will never do. And I never have. I mean, there were always kids knocking around Anfield when I was there. They are the future Liverpool supporters, you see? They are real people to me, Shelley. Real people …
Shelley looked across at Sir Harold again –
What did you find it did to your father emotionally, Sir Harold? Because he was only forty-eight, wasn’t he?
He felt unwanted, said Sir Harold. He didn’t know if he would ever get a job again. I saw him one night, just in tears. He felt he had failed everybody.
And even mining was suffering, said Shelley. At that time …
Bill nodded. And Bill said, Oh yes. And it’s come back again.
Do you feel, either of you, asked Shelley, that suffering of that kind helps build character. I know it’s a corny old excuse for a lot of the evils that go on. But is it character building?
Bill said, Oh yes. You’ve got to fight back. If you can’t fight back, there is nothing for you.
And those who collapse under it, said Sir Harold, they are never the same again.
Bill said, No.
But it’s not my recipe or yours, Sir Harold said to Bill, for training people, is it?
Bill shook his head. And Bill said, No way. Not giving in is the thing. So you’ve got to try and fight it. I know that it is easy to talk and unemployment is a terrible thing. But you’ve got to try and fight it.
So you had no choice, said Shelley. It was either unemployment or football. But what have you got out of football all these years?
Well, everything I’ve got, everything I’ve got out of football, I owe to football. And the dedication I had and what I put into the game. You only get out of the game what you put into it, Shelley. And I put everything into it I could. And still do. For the people –
The people I was playing for and the people I was manager for. I didn’t cheat them out of anything! So I put all my heart and soul, to the extent my family suffered.
Do you regret that?
Oh yeah. Yeah. I regret it very much. Yeah. Somebody said, Football is a matter of life and death to you. I said, Listen! It’s more important than that. And that’s true.
It’s a religion, said Sir Harold.
Bill nodded. And Bill said, It is a religion. And my family suffered. They’ve been neglected.
How would you do it now, asked Shelley, if you had your time again. Would you do it the same way?
I don’t know really. If I had the same thoughts, I’d possibly do the same thing again.