‘It would be better if I read what you’ve written after I’ve interviewed you. You can use your notes to refresh your memory of what happened as we go along. I was wondering what’s the best way to do this. Should I speak to you direct, or to Emma, who can then sign the questions to you?’
Emma interjected, ‘It might be best to do both, just in case she has difficulty with anything you ask. I can translate her replies for you if they’re more than a nod or shake of the head.’
Rachel did a thumbs-up.
‘As you tell me what happened, take your time, and if you change your mind about anything then please tell me. Firstly, Rachel, I just need to confirm that you’re referring to the Bluebird Cafe in Bruce Grove, Tottenham.’ Rachel nodded, and Jane continued. ‘And the date you saw the two men who might have been talking about a robbery was Monday the twenty-first of April.’
Rachel did another thumbs-up.
‘Had you seen them in the cafe before?’
Rachel nodded.
‘Do you know their names by any chance?’
‘I asked her that the other night and she said she doesn’t, but at one point the man whose lips she read referred to the man sitting opposite him as Tommy.’
Rachel signed to Emma that Nick, the owner of the cafe, might know their names as the one who might be called Tommy often comes into the cafe in the morning.
‘Does the other man go there often?’ Jane asked.
Rachel shrugged and signed.
Emma looked at Jane. ‘She said maybe once or twice a week, usually on a Monday or a Friday and sometimes both.’
‘How long have you been using the cafe?’ Jane asked Rachel.
Emma waited for her to finish signing. ‘She said since she started working at the sorting office, which was about two years ago. She goes there most weekdays for her meal break, which is between nine and 9:45. The two men only started coming in about six months ago.’
‘I drew a plan of the inside of the cafe earlier. Can you mark with an “R” where you were sitting and put “M1” and “M2” where the men were? The man you think might be called Tommy can be M2.’ Jane handed Rachel her pocket notebook.
She marked up the cafe plan and made some hand signs to her sister.
‘She said there were two young men sitting at the table by the wall when the two older men came in, but they must have said something as the two young men quickly moved to another table, taking their food and drinks with them.’
‘What age would you say the two older men were?’
Emma told Jane that her sister thought the one whose lips she’d read was late forties to early fifties, and the other man was late thirties to forty.
Jane looked at the plan. The men were seated in the far top right-hand corner, with a wall behind them and a window to the left that looked out onto Bruce Grove. Rachel had marked herself as sitting in the middle row, two tables down from them.
‘From where you were sitting, did you have a clear and unobstructed view of them both, and in particular the man who you lip-read?’
Rachel nodded, then signed. Emma said, ‘Apart from when Nick, the cafe owner, walked past or was serving them breakfast.’
‘I think it might be easier for now if we continued to refer to the men as M1 and M2, then at the end I’ll get a detailed description of them. Emma, could you translate what Rachel says in the first person?’
‘You mean as if it were her speaking?’
‘Yes please.’ Jane looked at Rachel. ‘Can you start with the time you saw the men come into the cafe, then tell me what M1 said?’ Jane held her pen to her pocket notebook.
Rachel did a thumbs-up and started signing to Emma.
‘I’m not sure as I was reading my book, but I think it was maybe between quarter past and half past nine. At one point I looked up and M1 was taking sugar lumps out of the bowl, then instead of putting them in his coffee cup he put two down next to each other in front of him on the table. I don’t normally lip-read what other people are saying as I don’t want to be nosy, but I was curious because I thought he was going to do a trick with them.’
Jane looked at Rachel and asked her to continue signing. She looked at her notes, then to Emma, who translated.
‘The men were leaning forward close to each other, as if speaking softly, so as not to be heard. M1 picked up the salt pot and put it down next to the sugar lumps and said, “When the van pulls up, I’ll take the rear.” He picked up another sugar lump, put it down on the other side of the salt pot and said, “You cover the front with...”’
There was a pause as Rachel spelled the individual letters of the name.
‘W... E... S... L... E... Y?’ Emma asked.
Rachel shook her head, then picked up her notepad from the coffee table. Leaning over to Jane, she pointed to what she’d previously written.
‘M1 said, “You cover the front with Webley.” Is that right?’ Jane asked.
Rachel nodded, then Jane asked them to continue.
‘M2 nodded and M1 picked up the pepper pot and slid it across the table and said, “We rob the van, J... U... D... G... E — Judge pulls up here and we fuck off.”’
‘Are you sure he said, “rob the van”?’ Jane asked and Rachel nodded. ‘And how positive are you that the names M1 said were Webley and Judge?’
Rachel raised her hand, tilted it from side to side and signed to Emma. Emma told Jane that names can be difficult to lip-read but her sister was reasonably sure M1 had said Webley and Judge and a hundred percent certain he’d said the name Tommy.
‘What do you think the sugar lumps, salt and pepper pots represented?’ Jane asked, and Rachel looked at her as if it was a silly question. ‘I appreciate it’s reasonably obvious from the way M1 moved them, and what he said, but I don’t want to influence your thoughts by asking a leading question.’
Rachel nodded that she understood, then with her index finger and thumb of her right hand held slightly apart, she moved them downwards in front of her body, before mimicking someone moving a steering wheel up and down.
‘She said vehicles for the sugar lumps and people for the salt and pepper?’
Rachel frowned as she shook her head and waved her hand at Emma, indicating she was wrong, then repeated what she’d just signed.
Emma sighed. ‘Sometimes she goes too fast for me. She said it’s the other way around — sugar lumps for people and condiments for vehicles.’
Jane asked if M1 had said anything else, and Rachel slowed down as she signed to her sister.
‘She couldn’t recall all the conversation when she made her notes, but she thinks the two men were disagreeing with each other as M1 was shaking his head and said something about a loose cannon and three of them was enough.’
Jane nodded. ‘Did they say anything else about how many men were involved?’
Emma spoke as Rachel signed.
‘At one point M1 sat back in his chair, raised his hands and said, “All right, he’s in.” And something about helping with the boxes and doing what he’s told. That’s all she was able to see and lip-read as Nick brought them their breakfast and she had to go back to the sorting office.’
‘Emma mentioned to me earlier that you thought one of the men might be connected to the snooker hall opposite.’
Rachel nodded and signed to Emma.
‘She’s seen him come out of the entrance quite a few times in the morning and cross the road to the cafe while she was there.’
‘And I take it the bingo hall above would be closed at that time?’ Jane asked, and Rachel nodded.
‘What you’ve told me could be very useful to us, Rachel, and you and Emma did the right thing reporting it to the police.’
‘Do you think they were involved in a robbery you’re investigating?’ Emma asked.
‘It’s possible, but I’ll obviously need to do a bit more investigation to find out their identities...’