Aside from the Germans and Ukrainians, were there prisoners at the Upper Camp?
There were. About two hundred prisoners worked at the Upper Camp. Jews.
What did they do?
They moved the corpses to the pits and burned them.
Where did they move the corpses from?
From the gas chambers.
Were there female prisoners at the Upper Camp?
Yes. They worked in the laundry. Six of them.
Do you remember the names of these women?
No. But one of them testified against me at the Düsseldorf trial in 1965.
Mr Horn, how long did it take to gas a person?
About an hour. After that the chambers were opened.
And then?
Then the corpses were taken to the pit and burned there.
What kind of gas was used at Treblinka?
I don’t know. I think that some motors produced the gas.
Mr Horn, you knew that the euthanasia programme meant killing children as well, did you not?
No, I didn’t know that.
But you were present at Treblinka when they gassed children.
Yes. They killed them all — children, women, men.
And you saw murdered children?
Yes.
Where were you standing when you saw the dead children?
At the pits.
You are accused of the murder of thousands of Jews, is that right?
Yes, yes.
And some Jews came to the trial and testified against you, is that right?
Yes, but they couldn’t prove anything.
What was the final verdict?
I was acquitted of all charges and declared innocent.
Completely innocent?
Absolutely. Completely.
Heinrich Matthes, S.S.-Oberscharführer. Born in 1902 in Wermsdorf, near Leipzig. Trained as tailor, later pre-qualifies as nurse. Works in psychiatric institutions throughout Germany, which makes him suitable for inclusion in T4 programme. Amateur photographer. As of 1934 an S.A., member of Nazi Party from 1937. Supervises work of gas chambers at Treblinka from 1942–43. Exceptionally pedantic and jumpy, quick on the draw. Transferred to Sobibor, then Trieste in early 1944, where he works as a policeman and guard at San Sabba. Sentenced to life imprisonment in 1965 for crimes committed at Treblinka.
What is your name?
Eliahu Rosenberg.
How old are you?
Eighty.
You lived in Warsaw until 1942?
Yes.
Then on 11 July of that year you were deported to Treblinka?
It was summer. Very hot. As soon as they unloaded us, I heard a camp inmate say to his friend in Yiddish, Moshe, grab a broom and sweep! Sweep like crazy! Save yourself! Then Moshe got hold of a broom, climbed into the freight carriage which had just been emptied and started sweeping.
What did you do?
An S.S. officer came over. He was holding a long Peitsche, a whip, and with it he was performing acrobatics in the air. He selected some thirty men and told them, Throw down your parcels in the pile here and start sorting. We sorted shoes into one pile, children’s clothes into another, gold into a third. They were huge piles, as tall as buildings. There were all sorts of things on them: toys, instruments, tools, medicine, clothing, so much clothing… I found a way into that group. We worked until dark.
Your mother and three sisters came on the same transport?
Yes. They were ordered to go left. There was a lot of shouting on the platform. Some people were killed right there, for the hell of it.
Did you see your mother and sisters after that?
No. I found out where they were buried.
At Treblinka?
At Treblinka.
What happened the next day?
The next day we sorted again. New clothing, new shoes. Then S.S.-Scharführer Matthes came and shouted, I need twenty volunteers for a light ten-minute job. I was standing right next to Matthes and I was afraid he might strike me, so I stepped forward. I was seventeen. They took us to Treblinka 1, towards a gate camouflaged with pine branches. They took us in and then we saw a pile of corpses. Then Matthes howled, An die Tragen! but we didn’t know what he was asking us to do, so we began running around the bodies. Then the Jews who were already working there told us, Two of you grab hold of a corpse and put it on a stretcher. Then we carried the bodies some two hundred metres to a mass grave and flung them down below.
How deep was that grave?
Roughly seven metres.
And you carried the corpses that way all day?
All day. From the gas chambers to the grave.
What did you do later? You carried corpses?
And burned them. Some couldn’t stand it. They killed themselves, hanged themselves with their own belts.
You witnessed the entire process of destruction?
The whole process.
Describe it briefly.
The people walked along the famous Himmelstrasse from Treblinka 1 to Treblinka 2. There were S.S. men and Ukrainians standing along Himmelstrasse with dogs, whips and bayonets. People walked in silence. That was in the summer of 1942. They didn’t know where they were going. When they entered the chambers, the Ukrainians turned on the gas. Four hundred people in one small chamber. The outer doors could hardly close behind them. We stood by the door. We heard screams from inside. Half an hour later they were all dead. Two Germans stood there listening to what was going on. At the end they’d say, Alles schläft—They’re all asleep. Then we would open the door. The bodies fell out like potatoes. Bloody, covered with urine and shit. People bled from their ears and noses. It was dark inside the chamber. People would jump over one another to catch some air. They’d try to break down the door. The stronger ones would trample the children and the weak. Some people were unrecognizable. There were crushed children’s skulls…