Having been informed by Zhukov that there was no room for negotiation, Chuikov went about his task of forcing Krebs to accept that there was no alternative other than a complete surrender. Krebs, desperately trying to buy time, continued to sidestep the issue of a surrender which he knew would in effect draw a final line under any lingering hopes of a continuation of the regime. The discussions dragged on, developing into a circular argument in which Krebs continued to make a case for the recognition of the Doenitz government. As the following exchange demonstrates, Chuikov was wise to his scheming and was having none of it:
Krebs: For the purpose of enabling us to discuss your demands, I ask that there be a temporary cessation of hostilities, and for help in arranging a meeting of our new government here, in Berlin. Particularly in Berlin, not in any other place.
Chuikov: We can understand what your new government wants. All the more easily since we know about the attempts made by your friends Himmler and Goering to find out the lie of the land with our allies. You surely cannot be unaware of this.
Krebs: I am an envoy with powers from the new government which was formed in accordance with Hitler’s will. A new government may appear in the south, but it will be illegal. So far there is only a government in Berlin, it is the legal one, and we are asking for an armistice so that all members of the government can meet together, discuss the situation and conclude a peace advantageous to you and to us.
Chuikov: The question of an armistice or of peace can be settled only on the basis of a general surrender. That is our decision and the decision of our allies and no talks nor promises will enable you to break this united front of the anti-Hitlerite coalition.
Krebs: We think that the U.S.S.R. will take account of the new legal government. This is advantageous and convenient to both parties. If you gain control of the area in which the government is, and destroy us all, then the Germans will have no chance to work with you and….
Chuikov: We came not to destroy Germans, but to liberate them from Fascism. And Germans, honourable Germans, are already working with us to avoid further bloodshed.
Krebs: We ask you to recognise the new government of Germany up to the time of a complete surrender, to establish contact with it and to give it the opportunity to enter into relations with your government. It is only you who will gain by this.
Exasperated and exhausted by the interminable wrangling, Chuikov once again conferred with Zhukov by telephone. Zhukov gave instructions to keep the talks going and in the meantime try to discern the real reason behind Krebs’ proposals. After nearly an hour of fruitless discussions, Chuikov sat down for round two. Krebs was the first to speak:
Krebs: I am not able to carry on any other talks. I am only an envoy and cannot answer for my government. It is in your interest to hold talks with the new government of Germany… It is you who are strong – we know that, and it is what you think yourselves.
Chuikov: You must understand General, that we know what you want of us. You are intending to warn me that you will carry on the struggle, or to be more precise, your senseless resistance, which will increase the number of victims… What is the point of your struggle?
Krebs: We will fight on to the last.
Chuikov: General, what have you left? With what forces do you mean to fight? I am waiting for complete surrender.
Krebs: No! In the event of a complete surrender we shall not exist as a government.
It was now 05.00hrs. It was clear to Chuikov that Krebs had no authority to authorise a complete surrender and that his sole task as an envoy was to seek legitimacy for the new government. Chuikov pressed on his demands for surrender by injecting a dose of reality into the discussions:
Chuikov: You are insisting on an armistice, you are proposing to engage in peace talks, and this at a time when your troops are surrendering of their own accord, giving themselves up.
Krebs: Where?
Chuikov: Everywhere.
Krebs: Without orders?
Chuikov: Our men are advancing, yours are surrendering.
Krebs: Perhaps in some isolated cases?
After reading out loud a Soviet news report on Himmler’s attempt at starting negotiations with Britain and America, Chuikov pressed home his point that Hitler’s regime was finished and as such any new government formed in the wake of his political testament was invalidated:
Chuikov: Your so-called new government will not agree to a general surrender because it has bound itself in advance by Hitler’s will, and intends to carry on the war. Your new government, or new cabinet as Hitler calls it in his political testament, wants to carry out his will in the future…
For Chuikov, the hands on the clock appeared to be moving even more slowly. He could do nothing but wait for a final decision from Moscow regarding the formal surrender terms.
In order to pass the time, Chuilov turned to more personal matters, by asking Krebs about his service in the army. The two then talked about the progress of the war, particularly Stalingrad, which both regarded as a turning point. It was only now that Krebs came to realise that he was sitting opposite the famous defender of Stalin’s city on the Volga.
The arrival of General Sokolovskii (Zhukov’s representative) marked a turning point in the negotiations. Speaking plainly, he reiterated the demand for unconditional surrender (which had in the meantime been confirmed by Moscow). Sokolovskii proposed that after the surrender of German forces in Berlin, the new government would be announced and provided with facilities to contact the western allies:
Sokolovskii: …You have Goebbels and others here, you can announce surrender.
Krebs: Only with the permission of Doenitz, and he is outside Berlin. We could send Bormann to Doenitz, as soon as we declare a pause. I have no aircraft nor radio…
Sokolovskii: Lay down your arms, then we will talk about the rest…
Krebs: If you will permit a pause, we can reach an agreement.
Sokolovskii: Only on the basis of surrender, after which Doenitz can come to us as you have done.
Krebs: Doenitz should be sent for…
Sokolovskii: I am not empowered to decide that. Surrender forthwith. Then we will arrange for Doenitz to make the trip here.
Krebs: …I cannot surrender without Doenitz. But I could ask Goebbels about this, if you will send my aide (Colonel von Dufving) to him.
Sokolovskii: So far we have reached the following: The German Colonel goes to Goebbels to find out whether he agrees to immediate surrender.
Krebs: Will there be an armistice, or must Goebbels agree to surrender before an armistice?
Sokolovskii: We will not permit any question of an armistice to be put to Goebbels.
Krebs: Without Doenitz neither I nor Goebbels can allow surrender.
Sokolovskii: Then you will not form your government.
Krebs: No, the government must be formed. Then decide the question of surrender.
As the talks had reached an impasse again, Sokolovskii contacted Zhukov for further instructions. The mantra was to remain the same, unconditional surrender. Meanwhile Krebs conferred with his aide. When Sokolovskii returned to the room following his talk with Zhukov, Krebs exclaimed, ‘The government of Germany must have authority’. Sokolovskii refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of any government sanctioned by Hitler. His response amounted to a reiteration of Moscow’s unalterable position. Realising this, Krebs reluctantly agreed to contact being initiated with Goebbels. With a heavy heart, he dispatched von Dufving to report on the substance of the negotiations.