Lena: Twenty years now.
Judd: And Zosia [Mamet]. What’s that been like, having that bond with all of those women you work with now?
Lena: I think I assumed just because girls can be so annoying, it was somehow going to devolve into one massive catfight. Like you said, that’s what you always hear about television shows: By the end, nobody’s speaking and everyone’s arguing about who gets the best hairdresser. But we all have been through this thing together and we’ve stayed connected. We’re all really different but we support each other’s decisions and there’s a real beauty to it—we’re not best friends, going out together every Friday night, but I know that if I needed something, they would be there in a second. There’s an essential net of support. I also have so much respect for like how each of them is navigating their career in a really different way but totally owning it. Each girl is totally carving her own destiny. Zosia’s writing a feature and Jemima’s making paintings and Allison [Williams]’s playing Peter Pan and they’re each doing their thing and it’s crazy. Allison’s getting married now. Jemima’s married and a mother of two. Zosia and I both bought homes with our boyfriends. It has been this weird journey to adulthood—and by the time the show’s done, we could all be carrying babies around.
Judd: Maybe that’s when the show should end.
Lena: Totally.
LESLIE MANN (2012)
It’s always fun to do an interview with my wife, Leslie, because she’s always hilarous and we’re often right on the edge of getting into a real argument the entire time. It’s such a tightrope walk when you do personal work—let alone work that involves your wife and kids, and is inspired by your life—and then have to talk about it with journalists. The problem is, Leslie and I have different ideas about how we want to portray the level of truth involved in our movies. I probably lean—out of pure laziness—toward talking about it as if it mostly comes from our lives, or at least an emotionally truthful place. Leslie prefers to say that the majority of what we do has been fabricated. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but this does lead to some tricky moments when we try to talk about our work with other people.
Leslie is my muse in ways that people don’t fully understand. When I have an idea for a movie, she’s the person that I kick it around with. When I’m outlining a screenplay, she’s the one who says, Well if you’re going to do this scene, then why don’t you do that scene, too? Many of the scenes I’ve written were Leslie’s idea, but I won’t get more specific than that here because I want people to think they were all my idea. If any of our movies resonate with people in any way, Leslie’s courage to explore these difficult, emotional areas is the reason why. She never thought of herself as a comedian—comedy is just something that seemed to happen to her. Which I am eternally grateful for, because there is no one I love working with, or being with, more.
Empire magazine: How did you broach the idea of making a movie about—I was going to say ups and downs, but it’s really just downs—of marriage at forty?
Judd Apatow: Well, there’s nothing funny about the ups. That’s the whole point.
Leslie Mann: Every other movie is about the ups. Or the end.
Judd: I was just thinking about doing something about family but I hadn’t thought of an idea. Then I thought about how I liked Pete and Debbie in Knocked Up and you could make a whole movie about them….So I told Leslie I was thinking about it while we were on vacation in Hawaii.
Leslie: It was a tense day. The kids were being pains. So it was maybe not the best time to talk to me about it. But we talked about whether it would be a good idea, whether it would be good for the kids.
Judd: You resisted the idea of using the kids.
Leslie: No, I resisted that on Knocked Up. I knew we’d have to use Maude and Iris in this because they were our kids last time. I didn’t want to use them originally.
Empire: What convinced you?
Leslie: Nothing. Judd manipulated me, lied to me, and steamrolled me. He told me he was auditioning kid actors while I was busy doing something, then: (stage whispers) “If it doesn’t work out, maybe we could use the kids….” Three days before shooting he said, “We had no luck finding kids, so we’re using ours.”
Empire: How do you establish what from your personal life can go in the film?
Judd: I think naturally we steer it. There’s way more that could be in there….
Leslie: But you would want to slit your wrists if you saw that version.
Empire: Who decided there should be a scene in which Leslie fondles Megan Fox’s boobs?
Judd: I don’t remember. At some point someone must have pitched the idea….Maybe Megan.
Leslie: Oh, I doubt it. It was you, and you’re trying to put it on someone else. I’m sure Megan would not push the boob touching.
Judd: I would not have pushed it.
Leslie: What is wrong with you? You’re like a dirty man.
Judd: Is that scene dirty?
Leslie: No, I don’t care. But a lot of people seem interested in it….It was your idea. Admit it.
Empire: You two met when Leslie came in to read for The Cable Guy. Judd, you said you liked her straightaway. Leslie, were you aware?
Leslie: Nuh-uh. Jim Carrey wasn’t there, so Judd was reading Jim’s part. I don’t remember Judd at all.
Judd: I had little birds and hearts floating round my head and she didn’t even notice.
Leslie: I had a bit of a crush on Ben Stiller, so maybe that’s why. I was focused on my work. I’m professional. Also, Judd was talking like The Cable Guy. He had a lisp. It wouldn’t have been very sexy….He would send his sister—
Judd: This is a lie!
Leslie: It’s true. He would send his sister to my trailer to tell me about all these dates he was going on.
Judd: She just likes me, so she says nice things. I didn’t send her.
Leslie: He sent her. What was your move?
Judd: I just forced you to be around me more than you wanted to be. It was subtle stalking.
Empire: Do you find the same things funny?
Judd: No.
Leslie: Yes we do! Are you serious?
Judd: We’ll agree on some things. But there’s some comedy I’ll love that—
Leslie: Like what?
Judd: You wouldn’t sit and watch Monty Python movies with me.
Leslie: I love Monty Python movies. What are you talking about?
Judd: But I’ll watch weird comedy all day long and you’ll want to watch Dateline Mystery….I think maybe it’s not that we like different things but I have a higher tolerance for mass quantity. Leslie might want to watch one episode of Louie, but I’ll happily watch nine more. She’ll want to switch to Psychic Kids.
Leslie: That is a good show.
Empire: Is there any comedy you vehemently disagree on?
Judd: I don’t think so.
Leslie: I thought you said we didn’t have the same sense of humor?
Judd: I think maybe you’re not drawn to spend as much time with it as I am. I’m fascinated by how it works or why something’s funny. I watch endlessly. Leslie is faster to switch off.
Leslie: You don’t know me at all. You seriously do not know me. You are so self-involved that you have no clue who I am.