Judd: “We don’t need you.”
Louis: “Quit.” I had a few moments like that. But once I had a kid, I remember thinking, you know, I want to show up for this, and I remember thinking that stuff of like not being able to sit alone with myself. That’s not a good thing about me. I wanted to change and this was a good reason to do it, and I remember sitting alone with my daughter a lot and breathing and going, Just cool it, you know, be here for her. She was a great target for my better intentions. I remember telling myself, keep being part of it and change as many diapers as I can and also try to get the kid away from my wife so I can have my own set of parenting skills. So I wasn’t just her assistant. I put a lot of thought into that. It was a big deal for me. Uh, I don’t know how we got here.
Judd: What are the things that you’re trying to say on the show about being a parent?
Louis: I always try to show that I don’t have any control as a parent, you know what I mean? I did this thing with the little one on the show and I’m telling her this thing about don’t look into your neighbor’s bowl unless it’s to check if they have enough. I try to teach my kids this kind of thing. The reason why we cut sandwiches in half is so you can offer somebody a piece of your sandwich. You don’t need the whole sandwich. Everybody in your line of sight, you offer it to them and if nobody wants it, then hey, you get a whole sandwich but you’re only supposed to eat half. I tell them these things.
Judd: Do they believe you?
Louis: Sometimes.
Judd: And you don’t know what sticks or how it sticks, because I’ll say something to my daughters and I’ll think they don’t care at all, and then a year later, in conversation somehow it comes up that they remembered that.
Louis: Yes, that’s right.
Judd: It’s interesting to me because I have two daughters. And it really does change your reality when you spend an enormous amount of time only with women and little girls. It’s a very sweet, intimate relationship. Like my daughter—I know you hate all the cellphone stuff, but she’ll text me all day during school and tell me, like, “I just cried during Spanish class because the teacher asked me a question and I didn’t know the answer and I cried and I’m in the bathroom right now.”
Louis: Isn’t that nice that she’s reaching out to you that way? I don’t hate the cellphone stuff, by the way. I think you have to—
Judd: No, I agree with everything you say about it. It’s a battle to figure out how to manage technology with kids.
Louis: Yeah, it is, but it will be a battle for them for their whole lives, too. I mean, when I’m at my best, I leave my phone around without looking at it and I only use my computers to write or edit or whatever. My favorite part of the year is when I’m editing my show because I can’t touch the Internet; I’m using my computer to edit. Because it’s a sickness. Like right now, because the show is on the air, I’m reading shit about it and about myself and I’m tweeting because I never tweet. I don’t partake in that back-and-forth thing, but when I do because I’m tweeting to promote and then I’m like, Did anybody respond, why didn’t anybody respond? And Oh, fuck that guy. Should I say something, fuck, maybe I’ll direct-message him. Fuck you. It’s a sickness. I can’t handle it. So the thought occurred to me: I need to help my daughter figure out how to do this. I think I’ve done a good thing already, which is that she’ll be the last one of her friends to get a smartphone. And because she’s watched all her friends change since getting them, and I’ve watched them change, too. I know all of these kids. I know the parents and I know the kids. I’ve known them since they were little. And I see these kids who suddenly are seized by this thing. When they come over—like, my daughter had a sleepover party recently and I made her friends check their phones at the door.
Judd: They start shaking.
Louis: They itch, they shake, they can’t listen to each other—it hurts them to not have their phones. And she’s observing this because she’s not one of them. It’s a big caution for her. So when she does get one, she’ll have a better shot than I have and that her friends have had.
Judd: What’s hard is that they are afraid to drop out of this mass communication. But like I’ve said to my daughter, “Maybe you should be known as the kid who is hard to reach.”
Louis: That’s right. That’s the coolest possible thing you can be. But it’s pollution. It’s pollution. You need time by yourself. I was watching Rocky with a friend of mine. And there’s all these scenes of him sitting on this dirty mattress, alone—the guy is so alone, it’s beautiful how alone he is. Nobody’s alone like that anymore. Nobody. You know, cops on the beat in New York are staring at their fucking phones. Airline pilots are on iPads. Fucking hell. It’s crazy.
Judd: When I’m working sometimes, I have this book of Cassavetes interviews at hand. He just has so many quotes about doing things differently—one of the quotes is something about, I don’t care if people like the movie, I just hope, in ten years, it’s still stuck in your craw somewhere. Like, they’re still thinking about it.
Louis: You want it to be compelling, that’s all. The likable thing is not really worth much. It’s a low-wattage bulb, you know. I remember when I did Pootie Tang, it was such a fucking disaster and John Goldwyn was the head of Paramount at the time. And he was so mad. He watched the cut and brought us in. Me and David Gale, who ran MTV Films, Sean Daniel, who had been the head of Universal who was now running the company [Alphaville, a production company on Pootie Tang]. All these people, and I was the director, and I remember they all walked in and I stood back a little and John Goldwyn was holding the door, and he went, “Come on.” He told me to come in and his voice was shaking, he was so upset.
Judd: Had he read it?
Louis: I don’t know. Somebody actually brought that up: Did you read the script? “Because,” the editor said, “we kept to the script pretty much. Did you approve this movie?” And David Gale said, “I think something’s lost on you. I think you’re not getting something.” “What am I not getting? What am I not getting about you taking four, by the way, million dollars of our money? This is an irresponsible, wasted effort.” He hated it so much. He said, “Why would Pootie Tang make that beautiful woman drink milk from a saucer on the floor, and yet he throws himself at this whore?” And I remember when he said that I was like, This is fucking great. This means I did something right because he’s so upset.
Judd: Oddly, those are the ones that people keep watching and talking about.
Louis: No, that’s right. And I think I’m able to do that on the show because the show doesn’t have an obligation to tell a whole story. Sometimes we tell two in one episode. I had an instinct that I should try to be as bold as I can about how I play with the format because I’ll chase away everybody who doesn’t like it and then I’ll get fans who do like it. If the net number is high enough, I’ll keep the job. And if I keep the job this way it’s a great fucking job. I never cared if I got canceled. That’s the only thing that makes me do this stuff well, is I was willing to let the job go any day.