Judd: That’s true, and Garry used to always say, “The Larry Sanders Show is about people who love each other but show business gets in the way.” I’ve always thought that’s true of any story. With Funny People, I thought what gets in the way for George Simmons is that he’s so funny and people love him so much on a grand scale that it allows him to never grow up. Only when life is about to end does he realize, I’m alone here. I paid a massive price to be this guy. We all know people like that.
Marc: When you look at the comedy movies that come out now, I admire the direction you’re going because I like—I like to feel things. Because I don’t do it in real life. I watched Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid the other day because it was on a British Airlines flight. I was coming back from London and they had it in the collection part. And it was great! I laughed and I cried and it’s Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You know, it’s not supposed to make that happen. But it was this weird moment where I realized that I don’t experience much joy in life and that there are things like movies—and like what you’re talking about comedy when you were a kid—that’s part of experiencing joy in life. I admire your angle on it, but I have a harder time. It seems like there’s a trend in comedy movies now that you might start with a pretty good story that seems kind of human, but out of some weird fear or overcompensation it just goes into fucking ridiculous-land.
Judd: Yes.
Marc: You’ve produced movies like that, no?
Judd: I’ve produced some movies that are better than others.
Marc: I’m not putting a judgment on them.
Judd: There are movies that are a little more premisey and there’s movies where you’re sticking very close to the truth, and sometimes when you reach for a joke—I always call it sweaty. It’s brutal when things aren’t organic and also sometimes you see movies that you could tell that nobody is passionate about. It’s just a project. It’s a way for people to get paid. You know what those movies are. When you see a movie that Sean Penn directed, you realize he’s not fucking around. It’s like listening to a Nirvana record or something. This is not a job. They have something to say. And in comedy, the people that we like the most, when they score they have something to say that’s important to them. And to me, that’s what I’m always looking for.
Marc: In your mind, what is the perfect comedy that you judge all others against?
Judd: There are a few movies I always go back to. I always go back to Fast Times at Ridgemont High. It pulls off a couple of things at the same time. One is that it has this really hilarious, broad humor with Sean Penn, as Spicoli. But Jennifer Jason Leigh gets pregnant and has an abortion in it and it’s played straight and he’s able to be incredibly truthful. That has always been one of the main models.
Marc: Because of the emotional variation?
Judd: When you can do that well, it’s a big deal. Terms of Endearment I always go back to as a movie about something very serious that’s hysterically funny. All the classics like Annie Hall and Dr. Strangelove.
Marc: How about The In-Laws?
Judd: Oh yeah, The In-Laws—all the old Albert Brooks movies. Anytime you talk lists, you feel terrible because there’s ten more behind every one you could mention.
Marc: But it’s interesting to me that for the most part, outside of appreciating it as a classic, Woody Allen is not an inspiration for you particularly?
Judd: Well, I never mention Woody Allen because some of his stuff is so great you feel like a fool even mentioning that you’re even in the same business as him. It just feels awkward to say I do what he does. But also, I think probably when all that stuff happened to him, and his family and the stuff with his kids, there was a part of me that disconnected. Maybe after I read the Mia Farrow book I just was like, I got a little creeped out. And my incredible worship and affection got dented. I don’t know where I stand on any of it. He’s stranger than I thought he was. And darker than I thought he was. So I don’t connect to it in the exact same way as when I was a kid watching Take the Money and Run. I know too much now.
Marc: When I read Please Kill Me, about the punk rock scene in New York, about Lou Reed, as shitty as those—I knew they were all drug addicts and everything else, but you know, Lou Reed was such an asshole, it just fucked it up for me. I don’t read much about comics because I know how filthy we all are.
Judd: You don’t want to know too much about anybody. I mean, if you read a Groucho biography, you’ll be like, Oh God, sometimes Groucho was a prick.
Marc: Yeah. Now, do you do Marx Brothers?
Judd: I’m obsessed with the Marx Brothers. They were on TV all the time, and I have to say they were the first comedy act that I connected to. I think it was because it was so rebellious. Groucho was basically saying, “This is all bullshit,” and for some reason I couldn’t have taken to it more.
Marc: Did you feel that because you’re not that aggressively, you know, “Fuck you”? Do you feel—
Judd: I never felt that way enough to be super-funny, quite frankly. There were comedians when I first started out who were working, like Kinison and Bill Hicks, and those were the guys that were the best guys when I first started. They were hilarious because there was such rage and self-righteousness and they thought they had the answers for everything. I never felt that way about myself. I never thought I had any answers for anything and I wasn’t as mad as them. I was just trying to meet a girl and to get to second base. As I’ve gotten older I really do believe that life is about finding ways to connect to other people, and I’m more attracted to a James Brooks sensibility, where all of these stories are about how people finally come together.
Marc: I think that’s where the joy is. That’s where humanity is. I think there’s sort of the “Fuck you, I’m better than you” or “I know more than you” or “Life is fucked.” I come from that mold and now that’s all melting away.
Judd: That’s why I made Funny People. I mean, it’s exactly that. He has a moment where it melts away, and then suddenly he’s better, and What do I do? I swing back and forth all the time. I think, Well I’ve done a lot of what I wanted to do, so why am I even doing it now? What’s left to say that I haven’t said? You don’t want to be working just to work. And so I don’t know. I just want to go deeper and more personal every time to the point where you start writing and you think, Can I even say this? Who will I hurt if I express these ideas? Am I giving up too much of my experience? But there’s no way to dig it out without going to the places you would normally hide from everybody. So it’s just about going deeper.
Marc: To push it a little further.
Judd: I’ve listened to your show a lot and you talk a lot about your family and what makes you feel separate from other people, and that’s what interests me now: Why do I feel separate? Why am I still in my room watching TV? In my mind, I’m still in that room and I’m not as connected to other people as I want to be, so I’m trying to do that. But even when I’m doing it, if I’m at a party or I’m at school, there’s a part of me that wishes I could run out and sit in my room and watch The Merv Griffin Show alone.