Judd: It works because you guys are so different.
Michaeclass="underline" We’re completely different. We answer questions different. We dress different. Everything about us is different, but nothing’s forced. It’s not like they like put us together like some buddy cop movie, but it totally could be.
Judd: In the beginning, Colin seemed so anal and tight, and you’re so loose and confident, it seemed like you brought something out in him that helped him discover what his point of view on the news is. The interplay between you was fascinating. I felt like I could see you guys figuring it out.
Michaeclass="underline" They wanted us to be different than what Seth was doing. They wanted it to be fresh. You know, Norm Macdonald’s update was nothing like Dennis Miller’s and Dennis’s was nothing like Kevin Nealon’s and Kevin’s was nothing like—you know, everyone’s different. Then, Jimmy and Tina. The one thing that really jumped out to me about them was that there were no runs, really. There was mostly just headline punch lines. I wanted to do something where we could go on a run with the story and inject more personality and opinion. That’s what makes The Daily Show and Colbert so great. You’re excited to hear what their take is going to be on a certain thing as opposed to them just having something witty to say when they find out about a two-hundred-year-old turtle that got arrested or whatever.
Judd: I think the only person who did anything close to what you’re doing was Norm Macdonald.
Michaeclass="underline" Every generation has their “Update” host, you know, the way the people have their Johnny Carson or their Jay Leno or their Jimmy Kimmel. Norm was the “Update” guy when I was a kid, so he’s the one that will always seem the rightest to me.
Judd: People forget that Norm was fired for making O.J. jokes after NBC told him to stop. [Editor’s Note: Norm says that is a stalking horse. They just had it in for him and were looking for an excuse.]
Michaeclass="underline" People don’t even know that.
Judd: He also did an enormous amount of aggressive Michael-Jackson-is-a-child-molester jokes.
Michaeclass="underline" Super-aggressive Michael-Jackson-as-child-molester jokes. Super-aggressive Germans-love-Hasselhoff jokes, too. It was edgy stuff, but it’s just not the same climate today. Now it’s this whole thing of you are what you tweet. I could know you for twenty-five years, I could have followed your whole career, but if you tweet something I don’t like, that means you’re just this kind of a person and you should never have a job again.
Judd: Treacherous waters.
Michaeclass="underline" Oh my God.
Judd: At any moment, some joke you make in the middle of the night can end your career. It’s a very different time for humor because you have to assume, with any great joke, it’s going to anger a certain percentage of the audience—and those people now have a way to communicate their rage. You can unleash the lunatics no matter what side of the issue you are on.
Michaeclass="underline" And it’s so passionate on Twitter. But if someone recognizes you on the street, it’s like, “I’m your biggest fan.” Everybody I’ve ever met is my biggest fan and everybody on Twitter thinks I suck and shouldn’t have a job. Obviously these people are not my biggest fans and obviously these people don’t hate me. But it’s a strange thing that people do.
Judd: Twitter’s just this place where the twenty percent who hate what you do will just let you know, and then it feels like eighty percent hate it. I don’t love Spanish rock and roll, but I’m not on the Internet trashing it all day long.
Michaeclass="underline" Right.
Judd: But somebody is.
Michaeclass="underline" The funny thing about “Update” is that people have these irrational expectations. Every week, people yell at me, like, You should be fired, they never should have given you the job. But it’s not like they picked me over any of the old hosts. They’re gone and they’re not getting this job again. I’m not Amy and Tina. You’re not going to get Chevy Chase back just because you miss him.
Judd: People love to debate what works on SNL. In every era of the show, people love to trash it while loving it and watching it. But the audience never seems to understand that the whole show is written in a week and the fun of it is trying to see how many good ones they can uncork.
Michaeclass="underline" I always say that, too, when people compare the show to other sketch shows. We do a completely different thing. If we were a taped show that was condensed to a half hour, if we were able to get every perfect shot that we needed with directors, it would be the best comedy show on TV. But we can’t do that. If we had the talents of Will Ferrell and Tracy Morgan and Adam Sandler and we could just focus on making a half hour of perfect comedy, it would be insane. If our star each week wasn’t a person who has never done comedy before and we didn’t have to write every sketch about them and their ability and skill set, it would be amazing. But that’s not the way the show works—and that’s what makes it so special.
Judd: Are you enjoying focusing on “Update” and not writing sketches as much anymore?
Michaeclass="underline" “Update” is such a specific thing. With two people, it has this strange kind of momentum—you know, you never quite get on a roll. In stand-up, you get on a roll. There’s a flow to it. With two people, as soon as you’re on a roll, the camera’s on someone else. And then, when it’s back to you, you’ve got to restart. So they’re very different things. I was comfortable writing sketches. With sketches, I know what works—and if something doesn’t work, I don’t get suicidal over it. So at this point, sketches are more fun, but “Update” is new and I want to get better at it.
Judd: In the last year, you’ve had all these big experiences: writing for SNL, being on The Daily Show, then straight to “Update.” That must have been a real head spinner.
Michaeclass="underline" It was a lot. Especially during that time when I knew I was coming back to SNL but I was still working at The Daily Show. That was awkward. It was like being a product of divorced parents, which I am, so I can say that.
Judd: How did you get out of The Daily Show when you just got there?
Michaeclass="underline" Jon was really cool about it all. He understood the opportunity and he was like, “I’m not going to hold anybody back.” It was a lot like when I left SNL for The Daily Show, actually. Lorne said, “You know, I’m not going to hold you back. You’ll be great at The Daily Show. We believe in that.” So I just got lucky. Both Lorne and Jon could have easily been like, “Oh, fuck it. And fuck you for even wanting to go. Now you get the small office.”
Judd: You didn’t realize Lorne had a master plan to get you back.
Michaeclass="underline" I don’t know that he did. I’m still not sure.
Judd: Lorne Michaels outplays everybody again.
Michaeclass="underline" Who knows. But that guy’s smart, man.
Judd: His success rate is ridiculous.
Michaeclass="underline" Yeah, he knows what he’s doing. What other show, what other producer, can lose Chevy Chase, John Belushi, Bill Murray, Will Ferrell, Phil Hartman, Chris Farley—who can lose all of those people and still have a relevant show? If Cheers lost Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, would they be able to reload and still be relevant? In Living Color was one of the greatest sketch shows I’ve ever seen, maybe number two after SNL. I loved that show. I was raised on that show. It had like a five-year window. But once the Wayanses left, it was like, “Okay, well, this is over,” you know what I mean? Lorne has had all these guys leave over the years, and he’s been able to restock. It’s amazing.