Mike: Exactly. It’s everybody together saying, Oh God, that’s so true. And therefore, it’s not bad taste, whatever that is, and it’s not a metaphor: It’s life.
Judd: I didn’t start out thinking that I would make personal movies. I started out writing broader comedies, but this area has interested me and I feel like, you know, you write movies to figure out why you’re writing the movie. That’s something I read somewhere and I thought, Well, that does make sense.
Mike: There’s something very important here, which I think is when it’s your time and when it isn’t. If you make movies, your early movies are about your time. Everybody knows the story you’re telling. Nobody says, “Why are you telling me this story?” Because everybody in your generation is in that place, roughly, and they recognize it. It’s a direct communication. It makes perfect sense that you’re making something that did not exist before. But it’s also incredibly familiar because you’ve hit the mark. You’ve found a part of people that feels new. It has its own language, its own insults, its own ethos. And then, when you get to middle age, that doesn’t work anymore and you’ve got to do other things. The Graduate was described endlessly as the epitome of its time. But its time didn’t know that because when it was coming out, the guy who produced it made me go to campuses and show it because he felt we need to create a “market.” And if I gave you the rest of the night to guess what the majority of college students said about it, you would never guess. They said, “Why isn’t it about Vietnam?” Because that was the only way to get laid. To be able—to be very deeply concerned about where our country was. They wanted everything to be about that, because they hadn’t yet understood that you can believe in a number of things at the same time.
Judd: Do you feel comedies don’t get the respect they deserve?
Mike: That’s funny you should say that. I think they get the respect they deserve. They’re always more successful. People are happier with them, they live longer. What movie is enshrined like Some Like It Hot? No movie. To be good and funny is about as good as it gets. Who cares about Academy Awards? I mean, you used to get an Academy Award by being very sick and not dying. Maybe it could still work—who knows, try it. But I don’t think any of that stuff matters. What matters is how much it connects with people.
This interview originally took place at the Museum of Modern Art in New York City with a live audience.
MIRANDA JULY (2013)
I sometimes worry that I am going through life using only a small portion of my brain. This worry is at its most intense when I spend time with people like the writer, director, and actress Miranda July, who has this way of coming at everything from a special, never-before-thought-of angle, a quality that fills me with jealousy and rage. Every thought she has is original—or at least, feels that way to me. I love her, but damn if she doesn’t make me feel like I’m not seeing the world as clearly as I should.
A few years ago, she asked me to do an interview with her, and the only rule was that we were not allowed to ask each other anything related to show business. Admittedly, this is hard for me. But in the end, she brought something out of me that I don’t think anyone else has. Attention all interviewers: Somewhere in here is a lesson about how to open someone up to new thoughts and ideas.
Judd Apatow: Okay, first question is: What was your scariest nightmare? Miranda July: Like an actual asleep nightmare?
Judd: Yeah.
Miranda: Occasionally I write them down, which is probably why I remember it. I had taken this suicide pill that would kill me. Then after I took it, I strongly realized I didn’t want to die—
Judd: Oh no!
Miranda: But I had an antidote. I took it and was so relieved. Then a few minutes went by and I realized that the antidote was in my cheek and I hadn’t actually swallowed it. You had to take it in a certain amount of time or it was useless so I knew, Oh, it’s too late! It was in my cheek! And then I just felt myself fainting and was like, I can’t believe it—just this one little oversight. And that was it. I died.
Judd: And then you woke up feeling refreshed?
Miranda: (Laughs) Or like, Surely there’s some way I can use that in my work.
Judd: The one I always remember was really vivid—like it was actually happening. It’s me on a plane, I’m the only one on it. It’s going in and out of mountains and steep cliffs and it’s clearly out of control. And I used to have nuclear war nightmares all the time as a kid. The sirens going off. I don’t know why they stopped; maybe we’re safer now?
Miranda: Yeah, or are we?
Judd: Actually it’s worse now but for some reason I’ve tricked myself into thinking that’s not an issue. Okay—your turn.
Miranda: What’s one good thing and one difficult thing you feel like you got from your father?
Judd: Well, my dad was a big fan of comedy, and I think he thought he was funny. I can’t confirm that his sense of humor is funny, but he carries himself as someone who’s hilarious.
Miranda: Right. The idea that trying to be funny might be a “thing that one does.”
Judd: His success rate is lower than he thinks. (Laughs) But he loved comedy and his interest in comedy sparked mine. A difficult thing I got from him was a general sense of nervousness, just not feeling comfortable in your own skin. I got that from my mom as well. They got divorced, but maybe that’s why they found each other. (Laughs) That agitated way of thinking, I need to stay on top of things to make it better in the future. A lot of future thoughts. We weren’t very “present” people. In my house there was a lot of “Next year will be my year!” My mom had a lot of fun energy when I was a kid. She was a really happy person, then after their divorce she became really unhappy, which threw me. During the divorce, they were more tuned in to their pain than they were to me. When your parents behave in ways that make you feel unsafe, you think, Oh, I guess I’m in charge of myself. And when you’re fourteen, that’s not a great thing. It kind of never goes away. As a producer, I’m always assuming things are going to crash and I’m trying to figure out what could go wrong before it happens. It’s helpful for work. But it’s a terrible way to live your life.
Miranda: I think I have some of that, too, for similar reasons. I guess that’s a little bit of a director thing. I feel like it’s in overdrive for me right now but it’s like, Oh, wow, this really has a purpose now that I’m a parent. This idea of being on the lookout for calamity at all times.
Judd: (Laughs) As a parent, you become obsessed with anything dangerous that could happen. I remember once my mom, who’s no longer with us, was babysitting my daughter and we saw her on a very busy street, and my mom was paying no attention to her whatsoever. We were like, “You’re never watching our kids again.” When you first have a kid and you have to make a will and you literally have to decide who gets your kids if something happens to you, that’s when you realize how little you think of everyone in your world. That’s a good way to get yourself to stay healthy. Put down the worst person you can think of to take care of your kids as motivation for staying alive. Okay, I have my next question. Do you have faith in humanity?