Miranda: My first instinct is to say yes and that I wouldn’t be able to do what I do if I didn’t. I’m counting on everyone to catch my heart, you know, to be able to understand in the deepest way that I can get it across, so in that way it’s like I’m practicing that faith. But on the other hand, I was listening to the radio and it seemed that literally every day there would be a new gun violence thing. At the same time I was struggling with problematic friends and struggling with the part of myself that sometimes wants to just get rid of a friend. Like, I’m overwhelmed, I can’t figure out how to deal with it, and I just think in my head, That’s it! Let’s just not be friends and never talk to each other again! I realized that I was feeling that same tendency about humanity. I was like, It’s too much of a mess—let’s just end it now. And then I told myself, No, you’re piling on the way you do with other things, and surely there’s something that can be done—it’s not all a waste. Okay, next question for you. What are the top three things that make you feel guilty?
Judd: You’ve hit the mother lode! You live in a fantasyland where I can make it just three things. I am built for guilt, and if a person in my life doesn’t try to guilt me to get their way, I will unconsciously train them to use guilt to manipulate me. Everything about how my family worked was based on guilt. From going to the mall with my elderly grandmother—if I had to run in and grab something, she would say, “It’s okay, you can just leave me in the car.” I remember as a kid my mom used to tell us who she liked best out of me and my brother and sister. We were just totally wired to please, and if we didn’t please we’d feel terrible. It’s a horrible thing.
Miranda: But what about right now? Top three things you feel guilty about right now.
Judd: I always feel guilty about whether or not I’m being a good enough husband and parent. I’m always guilty about not taking better care of myself. And I’m usually guilty about not being helpful enough to people in my extended family who need assistance. Because no matter what you do it’s not enough. And people resent you the moment they ask for help, so it changes your relationship instantly. You have problems but then you become part of an ecosystem of their problems.
Miranda: Okay. In your experience, is it true that men are more visual and women are more mental in terms of what turns them on? I didn’t make this up—this is, like, a thing. Men are more visual; just looking at a woman’s body can turn them on. Whereas women, they’d rather think about sex to be turned on.
Judd: Oh, I’ve never thought about that before.
Miranda: Really? What do you think about? Or are you too busy being guilty?
Judd: Yeah, I’m too guilty to think about any of these issues. (Laughs) I’m trying to think of me. Am I visual or mental? Isn’t everybody both? Well, the male figure is not pleasing. Like, the penis is weird and sloppy-looking. It’s like something on the inside of your body is now on the outside and it should be on the inside. Most people don’t look like David Beckham. So women need men to have a good personality because most of us don’t look good.
Miranda: Even in the best of circumstances, if the man is David Beckham, Victoria is still not…it doesn’t do anything for her. She has to pretend that she just met David for the first time, or that she’s David’s secretary, or…
Judd: Or that he’s a Jewish comedy writer.
Miranda: (Laughs) Yeah, exactly.
Judd: She’s probably bored. He has the abs. But it gets repetitive. There’s only so much you can do with rock-hard abs, because there’s not enough skin to work with. It’s like making love to a piece of slate.
Miranda: So you don’t really have anything to say about this? That’s fine.
Judd: You’ve seen The 40-Year-Old Virgin, right? (Laughs) I’m not the guy to go to about this stuff. I’m usually just hiding in a corner, shaking. I look away when a pretty girl walks by—I feel like it’s an invasion to stare at somebody. I let my eyes look up real fast and then hope that I retain some memory of it. My next question is: Who do you reach out to for guidance?
Miranda: Not too many people. I always have close women friends. There’s my friend Sheila Heti, she’s a writer. In fact, I sent her these questions and she just answered them all. (Laughs) And I have a really good therapist—which is the first time I’ve ever had a therapist I admire….
Judd: Admire? I need her phone number. I just always think, Oh my gosh, they look so bored. I can’t believe I’m not getting better and I’m just boring them to tears.
Miranda: Yeah, I do a certain amount of saying, “Well, this is boring,” or “Here’s something insignificant I want to talk about.” I usually try and preface it with some sort of diminishing thing.
Judd: Do you cry during therapy?
Miranda: Not as much as I did with the old, bad therapists. I feel like I’m just a better person with this new one so I don’t need to cry as much.
Judd: I don’t like to cry, because then every session when I don’t cry, he thinks, Oh, he’s not actually opening up. Once I’ve showed them that’s there, then it’s like I’m always hiding it.
Miranda: With this therapist, the first session I ever had with her was really terrible. I was really angry with her but I forced myself to go back and tell her how she’d fucked up. It was an amazing way to start because it got to the important stuff right away and how she dealt with that was, like, really smart. I don’t think in the past I would have been willing to come back. I would have quit.
Judd: I just disappear. Then I feel guilty for years that I didn’t tell the doctor why I stopped coming and I assume that they’re haunted by it. But they’re not haunted by it.
Miranda: The therapist I left this therapist for, I’ve still never told her. I figure she just thinks I’m busy with the baby.
Judd: Just send a card: “Doing great! Don’t need any mental health support—thank you for fixing me!”
Miranda: I really want the old therapist to know how much better this new one is.
Judd: Send them another note: “Why did you waste seven years of my life?” Okay, next question: Do you have any food issues?
Miranda: I’ve never had, like, “I’m going to get fat” food issues—which I have to say I credit my mom for. She just never picked up on the fact that she was supposed to worry about those things and was always like, “Let’s go get a doughnut!” in a really benign way. But I love different kinds of restrictive diets. If I’m meeting a new person, and hear that they’re on some kind of new restrictive diet, I want to hear all about it and possibly get on it myself. I like different forms of self-discipline. Like, I had no reason to be gluten-free, but then someone said, “Oh, you know it’s not great for your breast milk.” I was like, “Great! I’ll go off gluten!”
Judd: We went to an allergist and it turns out our kids have no allergies to gluten. But our house is totally gluten-free. Every time we go to the supermarket my child is desperately sneaking a loaf of white bread into our cart like it’s Oreos! I couldn’t have more food issues. For me food is such a reward. It’s all about fun. For me to think of food as fuel is extremely difficult. Food is happiness. I like being stuffed. I like being so stuffed I can’t get up. Like when you’re in that haze of exhaustion.