The others made no response, but the big Coroner had soon acquired a large pot of wine, which he slurped as the others spoke.
Raoulet was not an impressive witness, Baldwin reckoned. He was young, skinny and spotty, had the sort of baleful resentfulness that could so easily flare into rage, as was common with many young men nowadays. He had little to add to what they knew. Still, there was one aspect which intrigued Baldwin.
‘So you were at the gatehouse and received warning that a man called de Nogaret had come here to meet the Cardinal?’
‘Yes. I was told that by a kitchen knave. He said that he’d installed the man in a small chamber, the one where he was found later.’
‘Do you know the kitchen knave’s name?’
‘Yes. He was young Jehanin. Why?’
‘He’s dead. You know that?’
‘Of course. Lots of us have been talking about it. Sad.’ His face tended to disagree with his words.
‘I am glad there is nothing else to tell us,’ Simon said.
‘So am I,’ Raoulet said. Then he hesitated, his natural inquisitiveness getting the better of him. ‘Why?’
‘No reason. Except all those who knew anything about this meeting between the Cardinal and the man de Nogaret appear to have died. If you knew anything too, you might be next to die, mightn’t you?’
Then, seeing the young man’s expression, he added insincerely, ‘There is probably nothing to worry about. After all, you don’t know anything about it — so there’s no need for you to ask us to protect you, is there?’
Raoulet was looking darkly anxious now. ‘No, I don’t know anything,’ he repeated nervously.
‘That’s good,’ Baldwin said. ‘Because if you did, and anyone saw you here with us, they might think you were telling us all sorts of secrets.’
‘There was nothing! Honest! All I know, I’ve told you. The knave came to fetch me, and I went to get the Cardinal. And when we got to the chamber, the man was dead.’
‘Was the Cardinal still in his chamber?’ Baldwin asked.
‘Yes. He was there.’
‘Good. Then you have no secret to worry about.’ But the lad appeared worried about something still. Something that niggled at him. ‘Boy, what is it?’ Baldwin sighed.
Raoulet set his head to one side. ‘It was just a little thing, but I couldn’t help but think about it afterwards. You see, when Jehanin came to get me, he didn’t come the normal way, the way I’d have expected. He actually seemed to come from the Cardinal’s direction.’
Baldwin shot a look at Pons. The Frenchman was alert, staring fixedly at the messenger. ‘You sure of that?’ he asked gruffly.
Raoulet looked across at him, disdain returning to his features. ‘Look, the Cardinal’s chamber is there,’ he said, making a scuffmark in the dust of the path. ‘The man was found dead here, and I was over here. Why did Jehanin come from the Cardinal’s rooms, then send me back the same way? At the time I thought he was just being lazy — that he was passing, saw me and thought he might as well get me to take the message to the Cardinal instead of him. But now, well, I’m not so sure.’
‘All right, you can wait for us outside now, lad,’ said Pons. Once Raoulet had gone, Pons turned to the others. ‘We should speak with the Cardinal,’ he said.
Baldwin was frowning. ‘Why would a Cardinal want to seek the death of a young man like de Nogaret? It makes no sense.’
Simon was eyeing him speculatively. ‘You told me that the older de Nogaret was involved in the destruction of the Templars and the thefts from the Jews. Perhaps it was something to do with one of them. After all, do you remember Bishop Walter last night saying that the Cardinal had said he was born to humble stock or something? How did he amass his wealth, if that’s true?’
Pons sniffed. ‘A man may amass a large treasure if he’s ruthless enough.’
‘The Bishop also said he had a cup, the brother to a set he had seen in the Pope’s palace,’ Baldwin remembered. ‘But that was surely not a Templar artefact. Perhaps it was Jewish, and the Cardinal acquired it from the Jews?’
‘The Jews were expelled from France in the year before the Templars were arrested,’ Pons agreed. ‘It was a wonderful time for the King. He took on all their loans and demanded immediate payment, confiscated their houses and assets, everything. Just like the Templars.’
‘Let us go and see him, then,’ Baldwin said. He opened the door and motioned to Raoulet. ‘You know the way to the Cardinal’s chamber. Why not lead us?’
Hugues saw them pass him, but he had more pressing matters to look into than where the English might be going. He continued on his way to Arnaud. ‘Hoi, Porter! Have you seen the Bishop — the English ambassador, Stapledon? He looks to have disappeared into thin air.’
‘Not here, no.’
‘He couldn’t have come past you in disguise?’
‘No. There’s been no one like him. Only the usual tranters and merchants coming in and a few pilgrims and travellers leaving.’
‘Travellers? What travellers?’
Cardinal’s Chamber
The Cardinal greeted them effusively as they entered, which in itself was enough to make Baldwin eye the man askance. His manner grated on the knight’s nerves.
‘My Lords, it is most kind of you to come here and visit me. Please, allow me to offer you refreshment.’
‘We have not had to travel,’ Pons said. ‘We are here to ask you a little about the day on which you were called to the chamber where you found the dead man de Nogaret.’
‘A terrible day, yes,’ the Cardinal said soberly. ‘I had known his father, but I never expected to know his son.’
‘You had not met before?’ Baldwin asked.
‘No. Never.’
‘Where did you meet his father, then?’
‘On diplomatic tasks. Here in court,’ the Cardinal said.
‘You had a humble upbringing, I understand?’ Baldwin continued.
The Cardinal beckoned a servant and soon had his favourite goblet in his hands. ‘Yes. I was not born to a family of wealth and privilege.’
‘A lovely goblet,’ Baldwin said. ‘May I see it?’ He took the weighty cup and peered at it. ‘Wonderful workmanship. And Biblical scenes, too. Is it true that the Pope has some similar to this?’
‘Yes. I made him a gift of them when he took the Papal throne. That was this Pope’s predecessor, of course.’
‘Pope Clement — the Pope who oversaw the destruction of the Templars?’
‘Yes.’
‘That would mean that you did not acquire this cup and the others from Jews, then. The scenes are entirely Christian, are they not?’
The Cardinal was staring at him with some perplexity. ‘What of it?’
‘I merely wondered where a man with such a humble background could have found these cups.’
‘It was while I was at Anagni.’
‘You were there,’ Baldwin said, ‘when Pope Boniface was captured and his treasure taken? He died within the week, did he not?’
‘I believe so, yes. A pity, no doubt, but the man was seriously unbalanced. He tried to set himself up as a competitor to the King of France. Clearly that would never be tolerated, and so he was chastised and removed.’
‘I suppose that by “chastised”, you mean he was beaten up, tortured, robbed and killed?’ Baldwin said tensely.
‘I suppose I do,’ the Cardinal said easily.
‘Did he deserve it?’ Pons asked.
‘Many thought so,’ Cardinal Thomas said. He picked up his goblet and glanced into it, motioning to a servant for more wine.
‘He probably did deserve punishment,’ Baldwin said with a firm restraint. ‘He deserved it as much as any who have stolen or killed, Cardinal. But he didn’t deserve to be beaten and slaughtered without trial. His death was not a punishment — it was a waylaying just as an outlaw might attempt.’
‘It seemed suitable at the time,’ the Cardinal said flatly, staring straight at Baldwin.
There was a sudden thunderous pounding on the door, and Hugues and Lord John Cromwell strode inside.