Is it out? What‘s going on?
So I felt pressure then — but the book was already written. And then, with Eclipse, it started to feel like a lot of people had their specific ideas about what should happen. That was the first time I was really conscious that people were writing the story differently in their heads. I had also started to get that people-didn‘t-like-Jacob vibe, which really took me by surprise. I think it‘s because they weren‘t hearing his first-person the way I was. So then they got to, later.
SH: I don‘t know if you felt this way… but I never thought I would write from the point of view of a boy. Maybe because I read a lot of books where men wrote from a woman‘s point of view, and I found them unrealistic characters.
SM: Yes, yes!
SH: Especially, you know, books written in the last century. But I was like: That is such crap! A woman wouldn‘t think that — wouldn‘t do that — and it bothered me. So I thought I would never write from the point of view of a boy.
But then I met a character — almost exactly the same way you did. With Goose Girl there was a minor character named Razo. And then the book after that, Enna Burning, he was in it again — a minor character. And so by the time I got to the third book in the series, and I started to write from his point of view, I‘d already known him for two books. And I was thinking: I‟m not writing this from the point of view of a boy; I‟m just writing this person that I know. And the gender wasn‘t an issue. Was it sort of like that with Jacob?
SM: Yeah. You know, I felt a little presumptuous when I started working on writing Twilight from Edward‘s perspective, because I‘m not a boy. But Edward was so much a part of the story, and such a strong voice, that it didn‘t seem to matter. So I‘d kinda gotten that out of my system by the time I decided that I needed to write from Jacob‘s point of view. But, again — I wasn‘t writing a boy, I was writing Jacob. It was not like a universal male thing.
I do think that I have a sense of boys, because I have three brothers; I have three sons; I have a husband and my father and my father-in-law. I‘ve seen a lot of teenage boys in action, and they‘re actually very fascinating, hilarious, and heartbreaking creatures. I mean, they can beat the crap out of each other, and then be laughing with their arms around each other with black eyes five minutes later. I do think that I‘ve observed enough to be able to get the outside right, and that I knew Jacob enough that I could get the inside right.
Either one could have been the one that was wrong for her, and either one could have been the one that was right.
SH: I love the Jacob chapters in Breaking Dawn. But I need to go back to Eclipse.
You‘ve talked about Wuthering Heights influencing Eclipse.
SM: Yeah. You know, and that‘s one of the ones that‘s interesting to me, because Wuthering Heights is not a book that I like. There are characters in it that fascinate me, but, as a whole, I don‘t enjoy reading that book. I enjoy reading the very end of it, and I enjoy reading a couple pieces in the middle, but most of the time I just find it really depressing. When Edward speaks about it, he has my opinion being spoken through him: It‘s a hate story — it‘s not a love story.
The pull between Edgar and Heathcliff is strong — and, you know, Cathy makes the wrong choice. Both of them had something to offer, and she chose the part that didn‘t matter.
Even though I don‘t like to read Wuthering Heights, I think about that part a lot. It‘s one of those things that stays with you.
You could look at Edward and Jacob from one perspective and say: Okay, this one is Heathcliff and this one is Edgar. And someone else might say: No, wait a second. Because of this reason and that reason, that one is Heathcliff and the other one is Edgar. And I thought that was great, because either one could have been the one that was wrong for her, and either one could have been the one that was right. I like that confusion, because that‘s how life is.
SH: And when we‘re reading Wuthering Heights, we‘re reading it from an outsider‘s perspective. From the future looking back. So, as a reader, we know who she should choose. And we see her choose the wrong one, and that‘s why it‘s a tragedy. But with Eclipse we don‘t know who she will, or maybe even should, choose.
SM: Well, in Wuthering Heights we see who Cathy should choose. But we also see the person that she should choose is a horrible person.
SH: [Laughs] Right.
SM: And so, maybe, she should choose the nice guy, but, you know, Heathcliff was who she loved. But, at the same time, was he really healthy for her? What would have happened to them if they had gone off together?
And when I write stories, they‘re very specific — it‘s about this one situation, and one person who‘s not like anybody else in the world. So that person‘s decisions and choices are not a model for anyone else.
SH: Now, this reminds me of something that I‘m really interested in. We‘re talking about who she should or shouldn‘t choose. I think sometimes readers assign a moral to a story, and think that, from the outside, we‘re writing the story in order to teach people how to live. [SM laughs] But I can‘t think about a story‘s moral when I‘m writing — I can only think about whether this story is interesting to me.
SM: And when I write stories, they‘re very specific — it‘s about this one situation, and one person who‘s not like anybody else in the world. So that person‘s decisions and choices are not a model for anyone else. And it bothers me when people say: Well, this story is preaching this, or the moral is this. Because it‘s just a story. It‘s about an interesting circumstance and how it resolves. It‘s not intended to mean anything for anybody else‘s life.
SH: I do think there are some writers out there who are trying to teach something through their stories. And I‘ve read moralizing books that just don‘t work.
SM: Well, you have to be really talented to make it work. You know, C. S. Lewis does it well. I love his books, and he is very much out to put a message into his stories. But he‘s so good that he gets away with it.
SH: I think it‘s really important as readers to expand our understanding of the world, to get really close to characters that are different from us — and watch them make mistakes, or make good choices, and then think: Would I do it that way?
SM: Sometimes people tell me: ―So girls are coming away from your books with this fillin-the-blank impression.‖ Maybe something like: ―You should hold out for the perfect gentleman.‖ In which case I could say, ―Well, that‘s a positive message: You should not let people treat you badly. If you‘re dating somebody who doesn‘t put your well-being first, if they‘re being mean or cruel to you — get away from that.‖ And that‘s a great message: If you‘re with a mean, nasty boyfriend, run away right now. [Laughs]
SH: Right.
SM: But that‘s not the message of the book. Just because Edward‘s a gentleman, and he cares about Bella more than himself — and maybe that‘s something that you would wish for in a romance — it doesn‘t mean that that‘s a message I was trying to write.